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St Ives - action needed by 27 Feb

Simon's picture

By Simon - Posted on 24 February 2015

NB: Originally posted elsewhere on the Global Riders Network and appears via syndication.

Hi all

Kuringai Councils draft plan of management is considering mountain biking given St Ives sniggle cuts through it and they have land at HART.

The sniggle is basically as busy as Manly Dam and we need to ensure that riding is recognised.

There are at least 9000 mountain bikers in this part of Sydney, please make sure Council know they need to be part of the solution by providing trail and linkages to other land managers as part of the whole of government strategy published by NPWS in 2011.

Black Flash's picture

Why do we seem to find these things out at the 11th hour?
Happy to help though. I'm assuming that you would like to encourage users if this forum (riders) to voice their support for mountain biking in this area.

Feedback and deadline
Email your feedback to

If someone can draft a quick "blurb" we could all use it and copy n paste.
Sorry for being lazy, but I've run out of time to type....

hawkeye's picture

Doesn't really work, unfortunately. Sad It gets seen as that, and not counted. Original letters are best.'

Just to be clear, this is for the St Ives Showground Precinct.

I'll draft something up in bullet point form. You'll need to put your own words around it (please).

2slabs's picture

Can someone explain this on page 36. I wasn't aware of any MTB use at HART.

Honda Australia Roadcraft Training (HART)
(License 315729)

Existing uses - Cycling & mountain bike events & night use

More on page 83.

Existing tracks located in HART and West Enduro Ranges offer
potential for future mountain bike events coordinated & approved by

hawkeye's picture

I heard AMBC were using the site at HART for some of their clinics, but not sure how accurate that info is.

Off topic: whatever happened to AMBC?

MarkkyMarkk's picture

Page 83 is worrying – seems like the sniggle is going to become paved shared-use trail!


  • Potential for a shared track access suitable for use by all cyclists,
    including children, along the southern boundary of Mona Vale Road
    along the existing cleared power easement within the road reserve.
    Access could connect from Richmond Road to the traffic lights at the
    Show ground/HART site to enable safer cycle crossings between St Ives
    and the Show ground precinct. Road cycling would still be available to
    experienced riders as currently exists.
  • Potential for continuous cycle path to Mona Vale Road adjoining site and beyond to east and west.
  • Email sent...

    2slabs's picture

    Thanks Hawkeye, so not really regular MTB use. It just sounded strange.

    After scanning the whole document, it sounds to me like the short trail (Johnny's Jaunt) from the nursery entry to the showground may be affected if they put in an access road for overflow parking to the wildflower garden.

    AMBC's picture

    Hi Hawkeye,

    We're still here, we're ramping things back up after a secondment to Singapore and some recent surgeries & subsequent recovery periods for myself and a few of the instructors (interestingly none of the injuries were caused by mountain-biking proving once again that mountain biking is not as dangerous as road-riding, triathlon or climbing trees) Smiling

    2slabs's picture

    I would say the sniggle (showground to Forestway) itself is safe since it is a horse trail and also not council land. I think it is mostly National Park and crosses some private land too but please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Black Flash's picture

    Brief as it was, it only took 5 mins.

    pancakes's picture

    This is only pertaining to land to the west and including the Showground and HART property boundaries. Both the Showground and HART abut the Warringah boundary.

    For those who are directionally challenged that means if you leave the Showground and head to Forestway you're in Warringah straight away. The track on the south side referred to in the doc is on the HART side.

    I wonder if this means they'll be putting in a set of lights at HART? Yay...more traffic lights...

    Simon's picture

    Sniggle etc connects through here. What we need is the PoM to provide provision for mountain biking so that we can connect to adjacent land managed by others.

    There may also be opportunities at HART.

    The sniggle is not officially anything. However we show respect to horse riders who have used it for years.

    christine's picture

    want to consider contacting the North Shore Horse & Pony Association for some extra clout if the sniggle is under threat - it WAS opened up as a horse trail and is an approved horse took many years of work for that to happen.

    hawkeye's picture

    Too long-winded to include in full here, but the issues I hit were:

    * POM makes also no mention of mountain bikers as legitimate stakeholders, except as secondary users.
    * This despite traffic levels similar to Manly Dam, the busiest trail in Australia. (Info from Simon, I'm assuming from Strava heatmaps)
    * Over 9k mountain bike enthusiasts live in the Ku-ring-gai Local Government Area
    * Huge pent-up demand for officially recognised sustainable trails
    * Perfect opportunity to address some of this need within the Showgrounds and adjacent lands precinct
    * Helps council meet its unstructured recreation and population physical activity targets
    * Forms vital connection between Garigal and Ku-ring-gai NPs
    * Enables KMC to comply with NPWS's whole of government strategy for provision of mountain bike trails to increase visitation
    * Enables KMC to avoid the risk of having its draft POM sent back for rework due to failure to take this into account
    * attracts much-needed tourism dollars
    * Local mtb clubs are very concerned about losing access to the Mini Wheels circuit when the kids moto club gets chucked out in 2016 (for being environmental idiots)
    * Need to consult with local mountain bike clubs (eg MWMTB) and Trail Care regarding provision of decent local club event facilities and wider network trail connections
    * Need to provide a decent length loop to maintain interest, which should be readily achievable
    * Concern about the sniggle between Wildflower Garden entrance and western end of showgrounds being paved - what are Council going to do to replace the asset?
    * Agreement with the proposal to drop speed limit from 90 to 70 up to the main Showground entrance

    Lach's picture

    ... if they reduce the speed limit from Snives to the Showground to 70kmh there will never be enough gaps in the traffic to get across from Quarry Track to the Wildflower sniggle......

    kitttheknightrider's picture

    Actually John the miniwheels club were not being environmental idiots. They, like most sporting clubs set up around children, are run and managed by volunteers, they believed they were doing everything to comply with council conditions, they got screwed by a contractor and then thought they were doing the right thing by advising council of the situation.

    Please take the time to talk to someone from the miniwheels club to find out the specifics of what happened before you crucify them.

    Otherwise strong points as always.

    hawkeye's picture

    Perhaps I was being harsh, yes. I'll plead being grumpy on account of my injured ankle and having to hop around the house in a cast Eye-wink

    Nevertheless KMC went to unusual lengths in the draft POM to explain in detail why what they did was extremely serious and why allowing them to continue past the end of the lease puts them in breach of multiple Acts of Parliament, and how attempting to remediate makes it worse not better.

    spindog's picture

    submitted my 2c worth..

    christine's picture

    If you are gng to submit then keep to the point and as for changing the speed limit, that's just a joke and not a funny one.

    My other suggestion is ReSEARCH before submitting so that you have correct FACTS

    hawkeye's picture

    Just to be clear, i didn't include the editorialism about mini wheels "being stupid" in my submission, just the concerns about loss of access.

    Slowpup's picture

    John, you need to drink more milk.

    hawkeye's picture

    All the issues mentioned in my submission address matters raised in the document.

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